How the Roman Catholic Church started "Vs" patrick j miron

you have to start


 some where

The Cathars, Simon de Montfort and the Albigensian Crusade

The Albigensian crusade arrived at Beziers early in 1209. the city refused to hand over the heretics, and soon after, the city fell and more than 20,000 people were killed. It was for this battle that the infamous words 'Kill them all - God will recognise his own' were spoken by Pope Arnaud Amaury. Following this, the other fortified cities did not put up a battle.
Carcassonne, not especially fortified at that stage, put up a fierce battle but were eventually defeated after their water supply was cut off. The city was placed, most unfortunately, into the hands of Simon de Montfort, who spent many years battling against the Cathars of the region.
The crusaders returned home, but the Cathars continued. they prepared many fortified towns and fortresses that they considered impregnable. It was against these that Simon de Montfort and his army fought bitterly for the next nine years. There are many terrible stories of the burnings, slit throats and slaughters that followed the fall of each of these fortified towns.
It was at Castelnaudry that Simon de Montfort first faced a united army assembled by the Counts of Toulouse and Foix. Both sides claimed victory in the battle that followed. But by now both the King and the Pope were becoming increasingly concerned about Simon de Montfort and his activities in the south, fearing that he would take personal control of the region. The army of the Count of Toulouse was thus reinforced by the King's army, in preparation for the next battle - the Battle of Muret. However, despite outnumbering Simon de Montfort's army by ten to one, they lost the battle. Soon after Toulouse itself surrendered and the count of Toulouse Raymond VI fled to England. The south was completely in the hands of Simon de Montfort.
In 1216 Pope Innocent III died, and Raymond VII of Toulouse returned, with his father Raymond VI, to his city. The inhabitants had evicted the invaders, and simon de Montfort set a long siege against the city. This continued until June 1218, when a stone from a catapult killed de Montfort. Although his son tried to continue the battles over the following years, Armaury de Montfort was not as accomplished as his father, and by 1222 he abandoned his region to the French king and crown. Shortly after, the Counts of Toulouse and Foix and the King of France all died.

The royal crusade against the cathars in France

The Royal Crusade

On the 15th of January 1224 Armaury de Montfort left the reion and some semblance of normality returned. The lords re-entered their castles, and the Cathars slept more easily. But the new King of France, Louis VIII, saw an opportunity to recapture the lands in the south, and with the support of the new Pope, Honorius III, a new crusade started in May 1226.

The crusade was a partial success, defeating all the towns except Toulouse, until the new King became ill and died. However Toulouse was forced into a treaty - the Treaty of Meaux - that provided for the marriage of his daughter to Louis IX son, so that all his lands would pass to the French throne when he died.
It was following the Treaty of Meaux that the inquisition procedures were set-up, that were to play such a large role in the shaping of the region in the years to come. The Inquisition, acting initially for the Pope, had complete authority to crush heretics and the Cathars.
Taking refuge in the fortified castles, such as those at Queribus and Peyrepertuse, the Cathars were increasingly suffering and oppressed. Despite an attempt in 1240 by the conquered lords to retake their provinces, the battle was largely lost by this stage, and eventually Peyrepertuse castle was taken by the invaders.
The burning of heretics, in the hands of the Inquisition,  continued with a fury, despite an attempt by the knights from Montségur to defeat them. The massacre of inquisition agents by the knights from Montségur only made matters worse, if that was possible, and the revenge of the King and the church was brutal.
The 'impregnable' fortress at Montségur was eventually defeated and hundreds of people thrown to their deaths in an enormous fire near the fortress. This defeat also marked the end of the hopes of the Cathar religion in the region. Queribus and Puilarens castles were defeated in the following years, the Count of Toulouse died without a male heir, and soon the whole of Languedoc became part of France and the French crown.
Footnote: the last known Cathar was Guillaume Bélibaste, who was burned alive in 1321, finally putting an end to more than a century of battles and burnings in the region.

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patrick j miron----- Catholic Questions Trent an In Dept study oart 3 -- Delusional commentary

Trent an In Dept study oart 3

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Re: Catholic Questions Trent an In Dept study oart 3

we can sin but the Church can't the Spiritrual Churnch ( the body of Christ can't sin ) but the catholic or any others church will fall in sin,

 

 Paul conmended us to Cut off those that commit sins or remain life style in sinful as Catholic Priests who molesters childrens, 

 

Jesus also Said: if your hand do sin cut it off, if your eye sin pull it out so that way you can go heaven rather have two hand go hell, yes we all sinners but before God accepted us we must be clean by the blood of Jesus, so that we can be Body of Christ santifice and Holy, sin just like cancer in our body, when we have it we must cutt it off from our body or it will destroy us! the Body of Christ the Church can't be sin??

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Hi,

 

Thanks for the response.

 

We; all Catholics, ARE the "body of Christ" and yes we can and do sin as sinning is the "natural condition" of all humanity. 

 

 

The "unnatural condition then is to, with God's grace AVOID sin. Possible only with God’s help and our determination. Even with grace; “natural men” often fall into some level of sin.

 

 

1John.1 Verses 8 to 10

 

 

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

 

 

1John.5 Verses 16 to 17

"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.

 

 

John.20 Verses 20 to 23

" When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. 

 

Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." And when he had said this, he breathed on them,

 

 and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained"

 

I don’t recall where Paul advises us to “cut [ourselves from] off” sinners.

 

 To not associate with them unnecessarily- socially perhaps? But Christ Himself tells us:

 

Matt.9:12- 13 “But when he heard it, he said, "Those who are well have no need [without sin] of a physician, but those who are sick [sinners]” “Go and learn what this means, `I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.' For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."

 

Mark.2: 17 “And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."

Certainly these priest are EVIL-sinners. But are they any worse than ones who has a abortion; or denies God; or does not give to God his Just Worship? NOT in God’s eye.

 

Matt.7: 1 "Judge not, that you be not judged” and this: John.7: 24 “Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment."

 

The passages you quote from Paul to “cut off this or that” ARE NOT LITERAL. What they teach is our GRAVE-moral obligation to AVOID “the near occasion and temptation to sin.” THAT my friend is the lesson being taught here.

 

How anyone is “cleaned by the Blood of Christ” is these day’s seemingly a matter of personal choice.

 

 

 BUT my friend as the passages I shared above from 

 

 

First John, and John 20: that is NOT God’s way; and THERFORE the ONLY way it actually is going to happen.

 

 Jesus Instituted the Catholic Sacrament of Confession for this very reason; and it remains the ONLY acceptable manner [other than initial Baptism, which removes all PRIOR sins.]

 

I DID say “the Church” meaning the Catholic Church CANNOT sin as an absolute impossibility.

 

 

 I did NOT say “the body of Christ” cannot nor does not sin.

 

God Bless you,

 

pat

From: LEIN TRINH <lientcnguyen@...>
To: catholicquestions@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: Catholic Questions Trent an In Dept study part 3
 

 

we can sin but the Church can't the Spiritrual Churnch ( thebody of Christ can't sin )

 

 but the catholic or any others church will fall in sin,

 

 Paul conmended us to Cut off those that commit sins or remain life style in sinful

 

 as Catholic Priests who molesters childrens

 

 

, Jesus also Said

: if your hand do sin cut it off, if your eye sin pull it out so that way you can go heaven rather  have two hand go hell

 

, yes we all sinners but before God accepted us we must be clean by the blood of Jesus, 

 

so that we can be Body of Christ santifice and Holy, sin just like cancer in our body, 

 

when we have it we must cutt it off from our body or it will destroy us! the Body of Christ the Church can't be sin??

From: Patrick Miron <patrickmiron66@...>
 

 

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Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2012 7:13 AM
 

 

Subject: Catholic Questions Trent an In Dept study oart 3 [1 Attachment]

 

God Bless,

Pat

Patrick j miron --“WHERE Do the Differences Between Catholics and Come From?”

Protestant Theology & Catholic Doctrines

Exposed to cover & discover the “Naked Truth“... Catholic responses to the Booklet: “Answers to my Catholic Friends” by Thomas F. Heinze    part 3

According to the Church of Rome, all Protestants are heretics and anathema. Rome claims it alone is the true church and that there is no salvation outside it. This is sometimes denied by Roman Catholics, but is abundantly documented by the statements and decrees of Popes and Church Councils.

A Catholic reply to Protestant “[mis]- Understandings” Part 3

“WHERE Do the Differences Between Catholics and Come From?”

“Many people tell me [quoting Thomas], “you Protestants interpret the Bible one way, and the Catholic Church another.” …”The differences are not really differences of interpretation,  but of authority. For Biblical Protestants,  the authority is the Word of God.

 A priest summed it up this way: ”You Protestants believe everything that the book say’s’ “

2.   Second; on the issue of “authority.” 

Thomas [and most Protestants] 

are not recognizing what the Bible ACTUALLY say’s about the Catholic Church teachings Authoritatively, because it alone is Christ Own Church, and the One set of faith-beliefs taught and protected by God himself.

 The issue is further solidified by the fact that (#872)

{  Delusion belief of Patrick J Miron  #8790}

the Bible remains a Catholic Book, in collection, and in origin of the entire New Testament which explains then why God ONLY guides the CC in granting His “FULL TRUTH“, and CORRECT UNDERSTANDING of His Word.

It is extremely important; even vital to recognize that the Protestant claim that the bible; for them, “acts for “as their “god,” This is based on a complete and total falsehood. 

Because God” is not with them in the same manner He IS with us Catholics. The Bible Alone” then acts as the “only and final authority“, leading Protestants to consistent errors and numerous disagreements within even there own non-catholic ranks.”  

YET that same “final authority” is NOT fully accepted, and is often rejected, with amazing consistently, as “common self- selectively” is regularly applied on all of their following positions which are taught in the Bible.

2. The Primacy of Peter. Jesus gave the key’s to heavens access to Peter and the CC alone.

3. The denial of the proper place and absolute need for the CC as The Primary and Guided Teacher chosen by God

4. The essential Role of grace , especially “sacramental grace“ in BOTH Faith and salvation

7. The Seven Sacraments ALL instituted by Christ [explicitly or implicitly] for our benefit.

 Patrick j Miron Delusional belief #4567

4. Trent upheld the validity of the seven sacraments (baptism, communion, confirmation of church membership, penance and reconciliation (and receiving absolution from a priest), anointing of the sick--extreme unction, holy orders, and marriage). Protestants believe that the Bible only names two sacraments: baptism and communion.

8. Forgiveness of Sins and how it  MUST happen, because God Himself say’s so.

9. That reading the Bible while a good thing; OFTEN [as evidenced by the MULTITUDE of Protestant denominations and varying faith-beliefs] ; is dangerous when not done in full-accord with the One Authority guided and honored by God; thee CC. [Mt.16:15-19; Mt.28:16-20; John 14:16-17; John 17:15-19, John 20:19-22; Eph. 4:1-7, Acts 20:29, Rom. 3:2; Jer. 3:15; 1 John 4:4-5;  2^nd. Cor. 11:12-13, All of John chapter six; Mt. 7:21-23, 2^nd. Tim. 4:1-4, 2^nd. Tim.3:16-17, and 2^nd. Peter 2:1-2.] AND THIS IS only A PARTIAL LIST OF BIBLE PASSAGES THEY DO NOT ACCEPT., so it seems foolish to spend more time on this topic.

Our Catholic Catechism # 1849 defines “sin” as follows: “Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. [PRIDE]  It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as "an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law."

There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability

John 5: 37 “And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness to me. His voice you have never heard, his form you have never seen;  and you do not have his word abiding in you, for you do not believe him whom he has sent.

 You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; 

 and it is they that bear witness to me;  yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life [Speaking of accepting the entire WORD of GOD]. I do not receive glory from men

 But I know that you have not the love of God within you.  I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me” [Listen to or Obey Me!]

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Matthew 7:22
²¹"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

 ²²Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'

²³Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
 

Apparently there are also people who would have the ability to drive demons out in Jesus' name and yet Jesus would not accept them because they were not true believers.
 

So was Jesus' criteria for a true believer in Mark 16 wrong?


RESPONSE:
Zawadi’s logic goes something like this:

1. True believers will perform signs.
2. This means that false believers will not be able to.
3. The individuals in Matthew 7:21-23 performed miracles.
4. Therefore they must have been genuine believers.
5. Yet Jesus rebuked them for being false believers.
6. Therefore we have a contradiction.

Let us repeat what Mark 16:17 says in context to see why the problem lies not with the texts, but with Zawadi’s erroneous logic:
"And he said to them, ‘Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.’ So then the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God. And they went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by the signs that attended it. Amen." Mark 16:15-20



Now that we have looked at the context the following questions need to be asked:
Did Jesus say that only true believers would perform signs? No.
Did Jesus say that false believers would not be able to perform signs? No.
Did Jesus even say that unbelievers who follow different religions would not be able to do miracles? No, not at all. In fact, this is what he did say about unbelievers and false prophets:
"And then if any one says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. False Christs and false prophets will arise and show signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. But take heed; I have told you all things beforehand." Mark 13:21-23